Misty ([info]misty_writes) wrote,
@ 2008-04-24 10:14:00
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Current mood: geeky

This turned out longer than I thought it would.
Okay. I'm going to say something and it might not make much sense but I still want to say it. I usually don't make these opinionated posts very often because I kind of suck at getting my thoughts together, but WHATEVER. XD

I don't think Kripke "panders to the fangirls" as much as a lot of people are making it sound like. If he really listened to the fans, Ruby would be played by a different actress. I know that the character Ruby is being fairly well-received by the audience, but you'd have to be blind to not see that Katie Cassidy gets way more hate than Lauren Cohan as an actress.

If he really listened to the fans, fan-favorites Andy and Henriksen would not be dead. I mean, did you SEE the amount of Kripke-bashing that went on when Henriksen died? If he really listened to the fans, Sarah, by far the most beloved female love interest Supernatural has ever seen, would have shown up again. Ellen would have actually been in season three. There would be plans for a body-swap episode. Sam and Dean would be gayer than the gayest thing that ever gayed.

So, I think that Kripke takes fan reaction into consideration only when he himself agrees with their criticisms. I know a lot of people hated the Roadhouse storyline and think that because of poor fan response that it was dropped, but you knowwww, Kripke hated the Roadhouse, too. He made no secret of it. He said it was a valiant effort but that it just didn't make sense to have a home base on a road show. It was not surprising that he burned that mofo to the ground.

And a few weeks ago at the convention in LA, he tried to get an idea of the audience's opinion of Bela. Ruby, however, did not get that. Kripke basically said that if you don't like Ruby? Tough. She's staying. And there are a lot of people who don't like Ruby, yet he doesn't pay them any mind. Because he's in love with her, apparently.

So basically what I wanted to say was that I do not think Kripke panders to the fangirls. And I really hate it when people say that he does. It makes me sad. *sadface* And you don't have to agree with me, but this is my opinion and I have never once wavered from it, not even when my darling Meg was killed, or my baby Gordon was killed, or my other baby Henriksen was killed. :( Or Andy. Or Ava (granted, I didn't like her much once she went evil). I know it sucks to lose a character, but this is his story and he's going to make creative decisions based on whatever criteria he sees fit, and I respect that even when I want to go kill something in rage. :D

Um. I should probably have just posted this quote from Kripke himself WITHOUT my senseless input. @_@

"The reality is, I have a core story that I want to tell, and I've never wavered from it, not once. It's the saga of the Winchester clan — who the brothers really are, who their parents really are, why Demons are so closely intertwined with them, what their destiny really is. It's an epic, emotional family story at its heart, and to me, that's what Supernatural is really and truly about. Beyond that, story elements come and go, some are introduced, and others discarded."

Anyway, I don't want to get into an argument with anyone! :D I'm not trying to convince people that I'm right, I just wanted to put my opinion out there.




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[info]xx_smudge
2008-04-24 03:04 pm UTC (link)
If he really listened to the fans, fan-favorites Andy and Henriksen would not be dead.
agreed.

im surprised about people not liking ruby, i love her.

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 04:07 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I love Ruby, too. I usually live in my little bubble where everyone likes her. :D

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[info]trollprincess
2008-04-24 03:12 pm UTC (link)
I think that if Kripke pandered to the fangirls, we'd be getting a bodyswap episode. Because from what I've heard of his reaction at cons to the question he seems to be the only one who DOESN'T want one, so we're not getting one.

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 04:09 pm UTC (link)
Yep. I think that if he did try a body-swap episode now, THAT would be fanservice. Not that I'm opposed to that kind of fanservice, though. :D

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[info]static_pixie
2008-04-24 03:20 pm UTC (link)
Well, but then again, he admitted he wanted to get Gordon and Hendrickson back but both actors had other things to do and he couldn't and that's why he killed them, so that one was out of his hands. I dunno. I get the feeling that Bela's getting cut had more to do with budget cuts than anything else, but that Kripke likes fans to think they have a certain amount of power here. Otherwise, we wouldn't put forth such a valiant effort to promote the show, would we? Sorry if that sounds cynical, but...

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 04:13 pm UTC (link)
You know, I actually heard a crazy theory about the Bela thing. Dawn Ostroff said to make her recurring, and so Kripke intentionally made her character very sloppily done so that fans would protest and he could go to Dawn and say, hey, Bela isn't working and I'm going to write her out.

I don't even KNOW.

But anyway. That is a LITTLE cynical, but I could believe it. It's not so far-fetched.

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[info]static_pixie
2008-04-24 07:27 pm UTC (link)
...ooo. You know, actually, it kind of isn't. Though it'd suck for poor Lauren. But then, Sera did a good job with her in 3.07. Hmmmm. That actually would suck even more, though, that Kripke would intentionally throw another female character. Because it's not like Bela really had to take all that much away from Sam and Dean's dynamic and she actually would have been a better character if they'd had her in more episodes but for less time in each. Like in 3.07. And what's so wrong with adding more female characters anyway (ha, it'd give Jared and Jensen more time off!)

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 11:24 pm UTC (link)
I totally agree about her being a better character if she was in more episodes, but for less time. A lot of people didn't enjoy No Exit because it focused a lot on Jo, and that pretty much sealed the "I HATE HER" deal for many fans. So obviously when they made Bela a focus of Red Sky At Morning, fans weren't going to take it well.

They did a good job with Ruby's intro, imo. She sort of floated in and out, and managed to do her thing in the little time she was onscreen. It wasn't until the witch episode that I felt an overdose of Ruby (and by then I didn't mind because I'd grown to really like her).

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[info]chriztinaaa
2008-04-24 03:28 pm UTC (link)
You rule!!!! You do know that right? <3 I agree with you entirely and this was really awesome! :) You're right: give Kripke a break, he can do whatever he wants with the show! As long as Sam and Dean stay together and in character, I'm happy. :) <3

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 04:14 pm UTC (link)
Ditto!

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[info]laurondo
2008-04-24 03:33 pm UTC (link)
I used to think he was just doing whatever the hell the fans wanted if they bitched and complained enough, but I've realized since then that he doesn't, so... whatever. lol

I was one of the fans that was so pissed when Henriksen died. Seriously, you should've seen me on AIM with my friend Chelsea, haha. I kept saying things like, "WTF WAS THAT SHIT. OMG I HATE THIS F'ING SHOW"

Edited at 2008-04-24 03:34 pm UTC

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 04:16 pm UTC (link)
HAHAHAHA YES. Henriksen's death just made me want to throw up, I was SO upset. I kinda wish that Kripke WOULD listen to the fans more just so I can have Henriksen back. ;__;

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[info]starry_dawn
2008-04-24 04:10 pm UTC (link)
Totally agree. I think Kripke is an awesome guy, and he seriously loves his show a LOT. After 7 years of Smallville, I can appreciate a good show runner when I see one. And Kripke's one hell of a show runner, IMO. ILU, Kripke! ♥

And I don't think he panders to the audience either. I think that feeling is brought about because he's more receptive to fan reactions than other show runners we know. But I think he's doing what he thinks is right, and ultimately he's telling the story like he wants to tell it. And I think he's a stand-up guy for doing that.

I'm amused, though - I've seen so many people complaining about S3 and then when Kripke goes and does what people have been wanting him to do for ages, they accuse him of pandering to the fans. Do they not want to be listened to, or something?

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 04:20 pm UTC (link)
ultimately he's telling the story like he wants to tell it.

Exactly. Like, writing out Jo had absolutely NO EFFECT on the larger plot. Some people act like writing her out was a betrayal to the vision he has for the show, but... it wasn't. o__O

I totally agree with your last paragraph. It's so upsetting to know that Kripke can never win with this fandom, no matter what he does. :(

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[info]starry_dawn
2008-04-24 04:50 pm UTC (link)
It's so upsetting to know that Kripke can never win with this fandom, no matter what he does. :(

And he knows it, too. I know his "I can never win with you guys - it's so quixotic!" (paraphrased, of course) was meant to be in good humour and that he was probably praising the fans for being so determined not to see it fail, but it upsets me to think we're not giving him due credit. I really hope he knows that the majority of the fans think he's a magnificent bastard (special emphasis on the magnificent :P) and that even when we're not happy with how the show is going, we still love him for trying so damn hard.

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[info]keepaofthecheez
2008-04-24 04:13 pm UTC (link)
Aaaaaaamen.

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 04:20 pm UTC (link)
The Kripke-hate hurts my heart, you know? :(((((((

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[info]nitro26
2008-04-24 05:48 pm UTC (link)
I totally agree with you! You brought up some really good points there. And besides, he's doing what's best for the show in getting rid of Bela. But maybe that's just me being a little biased. Heh. =P

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 10:52 pm UTC (link)
I think he made a good decision, too. I know I'm biased too, hahaha. :D

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[info]clubinthesky
2008-04-24 06:15 pm UTC (link)
You know what babe, you're SO right! *claps*

Sam and Dean would be gayer than the gayest thing that ever gayed.
*cough* i actually wouldn't mind that, but since this is SUPERNATURAL, i'll pass on and stick with teh brothery angst xD

The Kripke hate is really.. WRONG! The guys awesome and he needs ALL the love he can get!

;3

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 10:53 pm UTC (link)
They already act pretty gay anyway... Kripke probably made them brothers so they could act as gay as they please without dealing with issues from the network. :D :D

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[info]clubinthesky
2008-04-25 12:01 am UTC (link)
ehehe that is a good excuse! xD

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[info]laminy
2008-04-24 07:29 pm UTC (link)
I have to say, that I think that I just basically agree with you on everything. Well, maybe not everything (I didn't like Meg), but that's about it. Seriously. You are so right. If fangirls really got their wish, Ruby would definitly be on her way out, and Bela'd probably stay. The Roadhouse would most definitly still be around.

Kripke likes what Kripke likes. Sometimes, his opinion matches what the fans say. That's a coincidence. He likes Ruby and obviously does not like Bela. He didn't like the Roadhouse. It's his show; I'm happy he gets rid of things that he doesn't like.

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 11:13 pm UTC (link)
Our brains are connected, f'realz.

I SO agree with your last paragraph. Fandom acts like Kripke has to love everything on his show. He makes mistakes too, and I think it's awesome that he actually tries to correct them.

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[info]breathe_me27
2008-04-24 08:26 pm UTC (link)
Well said! I feel like I should have something to add, but you hit the nail on the head, there. *claps*

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 11:13 pm UTC (link)
Glad to hear it! :D

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[info]katikat
2008-04-24 09:08 pm UTC (link)
So much word, dear! *smooches you*

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 11:13 pm UTC (link)
*mwah mwah*

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[info]kinkynicky
2008-04-24 11:12 pm UTC (link)
You are so right. The only thing I'd disagree about is Lauren being a better actor than Katie. HA. I really dislike Lauren and her CRAPPEH accent. *le sigh* But that is another matter entirely...

I don't really think Bela was sloppily written, I think to be honest, as a protagonist, she did her job, but she was never going to stick, was she? That's just the kind of character she is...they gave her more than enough chances and she screwed them over again and again, so keeping her around would make our boys look STUPID.

I don't understand Sam's sexy dream about her, (I see no appeal in a person who's shot me?) and I don't understand how Ruby didn't just find her and snap her damn neck when she found out about the missing colt...but I DO know that writing her out can't possibly be a new idea - she's just NOT a character who was going to stick...

...do you know what I mean? :S (I kind of want to paste this into my own journal now, FORE DIZCUSHIONS.)

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 11:19 pm UTC (link)
I think Katie is much better than Lauren. But the general consensus from fandom is that Katie is atrocious. o_O

I thought Bela could have been handled so much better. People on my flist have had such great ideas for her character, like what if she was introduced as someone Sam and Dean were BUYING from, instead of her trying to steal from them? They really didn't give us much to like about her, and then they just let her hang around when other characters who've done bad things to the boys have been killed for their actions. It made no sense to me, wahhh.

I KNOWS WHAT YOU MEAN. :D

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[info]kinkynicky
2008-04-24 11:28 pm UTC (link)
THANK GOD. I sometimes ramble so much I'm not sure I've articulated what I really meant. I just honestly don't see how this is a shock, considering how she's been written. We were never MEANT to like her or want her around, so this makes perfect sense to me.

Henrickson on the other hand? That was an enemy of theirs you could understand, even SUPPORT because, like them, he was doing what seemed right, he didn't know any better, and when he did, he knew what to do with that. None of his actions were simply for his own good. I WAS SO SAD WHEN HE DIED...but at the same time, I adore Charles, so, if moving on is good for him, then moving on is what he should do.


By the way, I'm just looking at your header and...have you seen Son of Rambow yet? Is it out where you are? 'Cause Ed Westwick is just so good in it and his real accent it just...*squeaks*

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-24 11:36 pm UTC (link)
Henriksen's death just about killed my brain. :( I WAS SO UPSET I COULDN'T EVEN FUNCTION FOR LIKE, THREE HOURS AFTER THE EPISODE. So sad.

I think Son of Rambow comes out at the beginning of May here. Ed is so amazing that I'm definitely going to have to go see it. :D

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[info]ckrazy32
2008-04-25 12:04 am UTC (link)
AMEN, SISTER.

I think - well, actually, I know that Kripke listens to us, and cares what we have to say, but in the end this is HIS show, not ours, and just because we don't like something doesn't mean he has to go out and change it. He's going to do what he wants even if it sometimes makes me terribly sad. Gosh, people. Whatever happened to the good old days, when everyone had faith in The Krip? :(

Edited at 2008-04-25 12:04 am UTC

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-25 02:33 am UTC (link)
Exactly! He listens to fans, but he's not going to change anything that he doesn't want to. Just the things that he agrees with the fans on. :D

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[info]dude_isotopes
2008-04-25 12:21 am UTC (link)
Ugh, does he NOT like Bela? Damn, I really like her character being in the show (not HER, but the idea that she's in their world for totally different reasons- and subsequently causes problems for them).

Anyway, lovely post! You expressed yourself beautifully.

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-25 02:35 am UTC (link)
Yeah, Bela isn't Kripke's favorite, much to the sadness of many of her fans. :(

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[info]dude_isotopes
2008-04-25 02:41 am UTC (link)
Eh, oh well. I have faith in Kripke.

I missed tonight's episode and I'm so mad! I got back from work at 10:02, and it was just frustrating. But I had a good day overall so I can't really complain :)

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-25 02:43 am UTC (link)
I'm sure you'll enjoy the episode when you get to see it! :D It was kind of weird, but I think it worked SO well. Hee.

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[info]waveless
2008-04-25 02:26 am UTC (link)
I don't like Bela. :(

Ruby > Bela!!!!!

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-25 02:35 am UTC (link)
I have to agree with you there. :D

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[info]rogueslayer452
2008-04-25 02:46 am UTC (link)
Precisely.

I've had my issues with some creators and their decisions, but I honestly don't think Kripke is the fangirls' bitch in doing whatever they want to see. As much as I would've liked to have had more extension to the Roadhouse sometimes the creator creates something that doesn't quite fit and therefore takes it out. You know, the experimentation thing. You try something, but it doesn't quite work out as you'd thought so you fix it and go back to the drawing board.

I also think fans shouldn't deem creators as Gods because they DO make mistakes at times, but we should also respect their decisions in the directions of things even if we don't always agree with it.

Honestly, I don't understand the Katie hate. The opinion on her acting can be debateable depending, but initially I don't understand why fans can't stand her. I love Ruby, and it's because of Ruby that I love Katie and I do love how she portrays her. So yeah, don't understand that.

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[info]momigi
2008-04-25 03:35 am UTC (link)
Kripke definatly does what he feels is best for the show and no one can tell me different. Bela is a complete... brat? No that's not the word but that's besides the point! I agree with you 100%.

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[info]rose_janice
2008-04-25 05:36 am UTC (link)
I LUFF YOU, MISTY.

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[info]comfort_inabox
2008-04-25 07:43 pm UTC (link)
I like how you expressed your opinion :)

I can't believe you just said :
"Sam and Dean would be gayer than the gayest thing that ever gayed. "

It's almost like alliteration, only they're not different words.

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Ruby...
(Anonymous)
2008-04-26 05:08 am UTC (link)
Kripke has made decisions beofre that the fan base has not been entirely happy with. Ya'll need to trust him, his decisions have worked out so well previously; he has his show on the air for 4 years, with the coming season. STOP questioning his moves and motives. Whatever they are, they work. When will you learn the man is a genius!
Now, Katie Cassidy is a hell of a good actor. If you read her bio on IMDB she was studying in community theater until she graduated high school. Basically new to the industry, not new to the artistic talent. SO...my point is, she has developed RUBY very well in the episodes given to her, which were not many. She has done extremely well, given the circumstances. Usually SERIOUS actors don't start working in the biz until they feel ready to do so. She was and is! Just sit back, relax, and watch her grow with the character in season 4 (given she has several episodes). Personally, I think the show is going to draw even more of a fan base with Katie being a regular.
Why is she always taking a "hit"? She's David's daughter, strike one, (he's talentless) shes gorgeous (strike 2) and she is with our "boys" (strike 3) Figure it out. Look at Katie's fine acting ability, character developement and reputation as an actress, put aside the stigmas and take a really hard look! Give her the chance she deserves and Kripe the respect he deserves! I'd LOVE to see a LOT more of Katie Cassidy, gave the show a breath of fresh air! I'm Sooo tired of the questions about her ability. Obviously, she has it!
Thank you.

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Re: Ruby...
[info]scarletwoman151
2008-04-29 04:58 pm UTC (link)
I often wonder if Katie wasn't as beautiful as she is would the Ruby haters be so loud in their protest. I agree 1000% with you but one big reason a lot of the fandom doesn't like her is the Jesse McCartney factor. She was in a pretty serious and long relationship with him and got a TON of backlash about him from his fans (not all but a lot).
Kripe has made it clear that ruby is not going t be a romantic storyline for either of the boys and yet people still piss and moan about her. I'm a huge fan of Katie's and I have been for quite some time. Even before she landed Ruby. I think she's a great actress and I can't see anyone one else in the spot. She's great at delivering snark and has proven she can go toe to toe with both Jensen and Jared in scenes. People should just back off of her she's doing a great job as Ruby.

If the casting directors and Kripe himself didn't think she could handle the part she sure as hell wouldn't be on our screens Thursday nights in his show.

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Ruby...
(Anonymous)
2008-04-26 05:11 am UTC (link)
Kripke has made decisions before that the fan base has not been entirely happy with. Ya'll need to trust him, his decisions have worked out so well previously; he has his show on the air for 4 years, with the coming season. STOP questioning his moves and motives. Whatever they are, they work. When will you learn the man is a genius!
Now, Katie Cassidy is a hell of a good actor. If you read her bio on IMDB she was studying in community theater until she graduated high school. Basically new to the industry, not new to the artistic talent. SO...my point is, she has developed RUBY very well in the episodes given to her, which were not many. She has done extremely well, given the circumstances. Usually SERIOUS actors don't start working in the biz until they feel ready to do so. She was and is! Just sit back, relax, and watch her grow with the character in season 4 (given she has several episodes). Personally, I think the show is going to draw even more of a fan base with Katie being a regular.
Why is she always taking a "hit"? She's David's daughter, strike one, (he's talentless) shes gorgeous (strike 2) and she is with our "boys" (strike 3) Figure it out. Look at Katie's fine acting ability, character development and reputation as an actress, put aside the stigmas and take a really hard look! Give her the chance she deserves and Kripe the respect he deserves! I'd LOVE to see a LOT more of Katie Cassidy, gave the show a breath of fresh air! I'm Sooooo tired of the questions about her ability. Obviously, she has it!
Thank you.

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[info]creeno
2008-04-30 12:23 am UTC (link)
Dude. Between you and Kripke, my fangirling is divided. Well put. Mind if I friend ya?

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[info]misty_writes
2008-04-30 12:46 am UTC (link)
Sure! I'll friend you back right away. :D

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